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Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

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Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

Message par Hoglob le Sam 10 Aoû - 12:10

Salut !

Alors autant être franc : je n'ai vu aucun let's play de roguelike.fr... Sad
La raison en est que j'ai une connexion très pourrave (256 kbs) et intermittente, regarder des vidéos sur le net m'est quasi impossible.

Pour faire court, les RL c'est tout nouveau pour moi et j'avoue avoir beaucoup de mal avec l'ASCII (sauf pour Brogue <3 , même si aujourd'hui je joue avec les Oryx Tiles...) et les UI de malade (j'ai un pc portable la galère pour les diagonales et le tralala).

Bref j'ai fais ma "présentation" il y a quelques jours sur Reddit, des jeux que j'ai essayé et de ce que j'en ai pensé, évidemment c'est tout en anglais, mais si vous voulez en parler ici en français eh bien je serais ravi.

( Ah ben j'avais envie de partager le lien de mon post sur Reddit mais je n'ai pas le droit de poster d'url avant 7 jours de fréquence du forum huhuhu...  -____- )

Post sur Reddit


Dernière édition par Guryushika le Sam 10 Aoû - 17:25, édité 1 fois (Raison : pour voir les commentaires sur Reddit)

Hoglob
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Re: Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

Message par Guryushika le Sam 10 Aoû - 13:41

ahahah ah oui évidemment les règles anti-spam sont inflexibles Wink

Pour ta connexion pourrie ya toujours la possibilité de télécharger LP à partir de ma Dropbox http://video.roguelike.fr. La Dropbox c’est bien mais ça règle pas le problème de la connexion intermittente, si tu veux je peux te transférer les LP que tu veux en Bittorrent, avec BT Sync.
Le LP c’est vraiment pratique pour voir comment joue un autre joueur, et donc découvrir parfois des techniques, bref pour découvrir un jeu en général. Dans tous les cas lorsque c’est pas clair on peut en parler et c’est le top!!!

Pour les diagonales j’ai trouvé ma solution il y a de ça qq années. Moi aussi j’ai commencé sur un ordi portable sans numpad (mon clavier de bureau actuel, un Typematrix en est aussi dépourvu!) et la solution s’est imposée d’elle même: Vi keys. J’ai pour habitude de taper à l’aveugle (en bépo) mais finalement ça m’a permit d’apprendre le qwerty à l’aveugle grâce au hjkl!!! Forcément c’est un peu galère les 2 premiers jours, mais très vite ça devient facile et en plus on a accès à toutes les touches du clavier sans bouger les mains et sans regarder le clavier, le top!

:’( pas de lien reddit avant 1 semaine…tu peux toujours l’écrire en remplaçant les . par des [dot] Smile

En tous cas bienvenue @ toi!

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Re: Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

Message par Hoglob le Sam 10 Aoû - 14:08

Merci pour l'accueil ! Smile

Pour les vi-keys je ne pige pas bien, tu réadresses systématiquement ton clavier en Qwerty du coup ? Tu switches de langue dans Windows à chaque fois que tu veux jouer ?

Bon sinon j'ai fait un bête copier-coller de mon post sur Reddit, ça passe.... en désactivant tous les liens !

Tu remarqueras que mes impressions sont vraiment celles d'un débutant, mais je trouvais que c'était intéressant de les partager, surtout pour les créateurs modernes.

A débattre ! ^^

A n00b's review of roguelikes (and why Brogue is the best of all!) a écrit:

So, I'm playing roguelikes since almost two month now.

As you say I'm very new into this thing and I wanted to share my impressions about the games I played, thinking this would be interesting for creators as well as for fans who would enjoy contradict my noob's opinions. Wink

A lot of you could be offended by my blunt talk, please try to take it with a grain of humour. I'm VERY NOOB, I've never ascended, never actually went very far in all these games so my views may be wrong...

You must also understand that I play on a laptop, and not a QWERTY one (and English isn't my mother tongue if you gramarnazi!), A LOT of games are just unplayable this way and so suffer an unfair rating by me.

HOW DID I COME TO ROGUELIKES?

It all begins when I discovered the online minimalist text game named A Dark Room.

I enjoyed it a lot and wasn't bothered at all by the ASCII, I almost thought it served the game well.
While wanting to look for other similar games I learnt about Dwarf Fortress, and then, about roguelikes.

I've found DF not only "ugly" but also incredibly daunting, so I didn't even gave it a shot. It may be a shame I know.

Here are the games I actually played, my noob's ratings (from the lowest to the highest) and explanations. Know that I played more than that but wanted to speak only about the most known/important (for me) :

CATALOGUS:

Slash'EM (NetHack)1/10
I just can't play with it... because of my keyboard. And it's ugly as hell also... (the tiles make me want to puke). >_<

ADOM : 1/10
The all claimed BEST roguelike evar isn't playable with my config (diagonals are hell!!!) and is way too complex to apprehend for a nOOb. Alas it seems.

CastlevaniaRL : 2/10
My biggest deception... the idea was so interesting, the graphics are nice, the soundtrack awesome... unfortunately I CAN'T play it! Unless you know a way to readress ALL the keys which I didn't find... Sad

UnReal World2/10
So rich! So dense! A deep ambiance!
But if I have to walk for hours in a forest I prefer to do it IRL.

Dungeonsmans! - ALPHA3/10 Unfixed
The grip is most excellent (diagonals are almost easy to do with shift!) almost like an arcad game. The action is fun and intense, graphics and sounds... but oh it is unbalanced!!
Sometimes TOO easy, sometimes TOO hard, it's not fun after some times and I don't want to give another shot until a mre polished version come. Too bad as some combo moves were interesting to say the least.

Dungeons of Dredmor : 4/10
Well I made a mistake buying this game.
I make honorable amend for the try of a Monkey Island's style humour, but eventually that doesn't work at all, and the gameplay is just SLOOOOW (even when speeding it). I can't dive in and get bored very fast.
Well, it's still a noob's friendly roguelike after all.

ToME44,5/10
Another big deception... the mouse gameplay is perfect (even if it's too MMORPG-esque for my taste) the graphics are impressive, the sounds are nice, the fact that you have to unlock characters is incenting, and having STORIES instead of just diving in a dungeon to find an amulet was very promising!
However I can't get more bored than having to use autoexplore, stopping, bashing monsters that wait in a row for hitting me... srsly... snakes, trolls, fungus and cutpurser going along side by side just to hit me???!!! Is there any hint of IA or simulated life there? Not at all, and I find it depressively BORING!
What a shame...

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 5/10 (will require more playing for sure) I'm still unfixed about this one.
On one side I find the dungeons stupidely big (if I have to use autoexplore this often then something is really wrong in this game), one the other side I sense an incredible richness of the universe that make me want to play it again!
The tiles are good for the eyes, it only lack sounds (I know one attempt that was just ridiculous).
I'm unsure as to know if the NPCs are credible or not, I still don't know, if they all react like in ToME4 (just being bots waiting side by side to bash you whatever species they are) then it won't interest me long!

PrincessRL : 6/10
Very interesting! A roguelike where you don't die! The ASCII isn't that bad (I think I begin to get used), the theme is original and quite fun. I have hard time with the controls (especially these f**king diagonals!) but I'll persist and play more of it.

DoomRL : 6,5/10
Maybe the first "true" roguelike I've ever been able to understand and play. The tileset is beautiful, the soundtrack just perfect (and useful in stereo to know where the monsters may be!)
What just don't keep me addicted is the fact that there is no richness, you don't even have to find keys to find the exit of levels like in the original game. You just go and shoot everything. Relaxing, but have a lack of replayability after a while.
Oh and now I'm starting to get used to ASCII I know I should try AliensRL and DiabloRL...

Pixel Dungeon7/10
This one is a little gem of gameplay and accessibility, only faulted by the fact that it is horribly HARD! I've still never went under dlvl 4! Even Brogue is easier!
But almost everyday I make a run of it, the creator still developing the game for fun, it could become something very good with time.

Infra Arcana9/10
As a noob I had a little time to get myself with traditional roguelike interface and commands, but it come fast after all.
The tileset is really good... these walls getting stained by blood when you bash reanimated corpse is something!
The ambiance is perfect and I really feel I'm in a Lovecraft setting despite the very violent action nature of the game.
The idea of replacing hunger with insanity is awesome and add a lot to the run too.
It only lack sounds effects and tracks and it would be near perfect. The developper said he keep working on it too.
Highly recommended!
Oh and the diagonals are the most perfect there (shift or ctrl).

Brogue : 9,5/10
My favorite by far, here is why:
* Beginner friendly gameplay, you can play all by mouse and every important information is displayed
* Clean interface (and gameplay too in fact), no leveling, not a lot of traits and skills to manage, simplicity as it's best
* Dungeons are small enough to add intensity to the game
* Interactions with environment and NPCs never cease to amaze me
* Situations are numerous and requires new thinking almost everytime
* The ASCII is just absolutely GORGEOUS (even if I now play with the excellent Oryx Tiles and won't go back)
* When almost every modern roguelike creators play the "cute & fun pixel" card Brogue seems gloom and gritty, it really has an ambiance!
Ok now my record is only dlvl 11 but wow the fun I had and still have playing it! It's incomparable. Now it would just be perfect if critters would be more realistic and credible (a rat hunting me from on part of the dungeon to the other make no sens in term of animal instinct), but it's almost there and I really wish for a roguelike like this coming out one day!

NON-ROGUELIKE (but related) WORTH MENTIONING:

Dungelot3/10
Okay I played this one more hours than I'd admit, but it lack a serious replayability and now I uninstalled it I know I won't play it again... ever.

Spelunky - ALPHA : 5/10
Awesome concept, charming graphics and sounds, but I just can't allow myself to play a "roguelike-like" game where my character can die because of my shitty reflexes... Sad

Desktop Dungeons : 10/10
The puzzle game that reconciled me with arithmetics.
Some roguelikes-(likes) crumble under traditions and odd features like stupid autoexploring... and other, like Desktop Dungeons make sure that the most little piece of gameplay is here for a reason, like the fact that exploring new tiles regain you health and mana.
Seriously this game is just impressively addicting and challenging. The Alpha version is good, the Beta (for which I paid for) is even more excellent.
Just try it if you haven't already!

THOSE ON WHICH I KEEP AN EYE:

Dark Wood : Horror top-down roguelike? Sign me in! I really hope this one to be good.

Tiny Keep :
May be the roguelike of my dream despite these graphics I'm not a big fan of if AI is as deep and rich as described! Oh... but it's an ACTION-roguelike... :/

SO!

I hope my genuine opinions on the roguelikeverse was interesting in a sense or another.

Please feel free to comment/troll/advice/prove me wrong! Wink

TLDR: Brogue is the most captivating of all because it's the simplest yet the most rich and most credible (yet not perfect) in term of interaction with NPCs and environment. Developpers take note!



 

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Re: Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

Message par Guryushika le Sam 10 Aoû - 15:16

Pour les vi-keys je ne pige pas bien, tu réadresses systématiquement ton clavier en Qwerty du coup ? Tu switches de langue dans Windows à chaque fois que tu veux jouer ?
Je joue toujours un qwerty en changeant la langue dans windows (alt+shift pour moi), c’est le plus simple pour avoir réellement l’expérience voulu par le/les développeurs.

ADOM : 1/10
The all claimed BEST roguelike evar isn't playable with my config (diagonals are hell!!!) and is way too complex to apprehend for a nOOb. Alas it seems.
Je suis d’accord que ADOM n’est pas noob-friendly mais d’ici peu dès que tu seras plus à l’aise je te conseille de t’y mettre un peu ça vaut le coup…ou sinon tu peux attendre la version refaite grâce au kickstarter.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 5/10 (will require more playing for sure) I'm still unfixed about this one.
On one side I find the dungeons stupidely big (if I have to use autoexplore this often then something is really wrong in this game), one the other side I sense an incredible richness of the universe that make me want to play it again!
The tiles are good for the eyes, it only lack sounds (I know one attempt that was just ridiculous).
I'm unsure as to know if the NPCs are credible or not, I still don't know, if they all react like in ToME4 (just being bots waiting side by side to bash you whatever species they are) then it won't interest me long!
Ok DCSS a des défauts certains, mais il a aussi des qualités incroyable, je pense que c’est le plus noob-friendly en terme de roguelike. Je veux dire par là que DCSS donne une bonne référence pour appréhender les autres roguelikes.


Infra Arcana : 9/10
As a noob I had a little time to get myself with traditional roguelike interface and commands, but it come fast after all.
The tileset is really good... these walls getting stained by blood when you bash reanimated corpse is something!
The ambiance is perfect and I really feel I'm in a Lovecraft setting despite the very violent action nature of the game.
The idea of replacing hunger with insanity is awesome and add a lot to the run too.
It only lack sounds effects and tracks and it would be near perfect. The developper said he keep working on it too.
Highly recommended!
Oh and the diagonals are the most perfect there (shift or ctrl).
Infra Arcana je l’ai découvert grâce à toi et ZeBlob m’en a parlé dans la même journée!!! C’est vrai que c’est vraiment sympa, je m’y suis pas encore vraiment mis. On fera sans doute un LP dessus.

Brogue : 9,5/10
My favorite by far, here is why:
* Beginner friendly gameplay, you can play all by mouse and every important information is displayed
* Clean interface (and gameplay too in fact), no leveling, not a lot of traits and skills to manage, simplicity as it's best
* Dungeons are small enough to add intensity to the game
* Interactions with environment and NPCs never cease to amaze me
* Situations are numerous and requires new thinking almost everytime
* The ASCII is just absolutely GORGEOUS (even if I now play with the excellent Oryx Tiles and won't go back)
* When almost every modern roguelike creators play the "cute & fun pixel" card Brogue seems gloom and gritty, it really has an ambiance!
Ok now my record is only dlvl 11 but wow the fun I had and still have playing it! It's incomparable. Now it would just be perfect if critters would be more realistic and credible (a rat hunting me from on part of the dungeon to the other make no sens in term of animal instinct), but it's almost there and I really wish for a roguelike like this coming out one day!
Pour finir, c’est vrai que Brogue c’est le top, c’est facile au niveau des commandes, c’est beau, c’est rapide à jouer comme ça peut être long. Bref c’est bien équilibré!


Je te conseille Caves of Qud, un peu à la ADOM mais je trouve plus moderne dans le style de jeu…forcément. J’ai fait un LP dessus c’était mes premiers LP… pale , malheureusement mon Visual C++ plante et je n’ai jamais pu continuer!

Dark Wood : Horror top-down roguelike? Sign me in! I really hope this one to be good.
Pinaise DarkWood ça à l’air de déchirer!!!

Un question pour finir, tu voudrais pas traduire ça en français et le mettre sur le blog en tant qu’auteur ?
Je te laisse regarder le post sur le recrutement, bien sûr tu peux faire que des articles…même que cet article…et si le cœur t’en dit tu peux aussi faire des LP plus tard!

Guryushika
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Re: Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

Message par Guryushika le Sam 10 Aoû - 15:46

Hoglob a écrit:It all begins when I discovered the online minimalist text game named A Dark Room.
Pinaise mais c’est génial ce A Dark Room!!!!
Merci, je connaissais d’autres text based adventures mais celui là c’est très bon cheers

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Re: Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

Message par ZeBlob le Sam 10 Aoû - 23:26

Aargh NetHack 1/10... ok j'avoue j'aurais note pareil la premiere fois que j'y ai joue. mais tu a fait slash em ou nethack ? nethack est plus accessible je pense... en tout bienvenue dans le roguelikeverse^^

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Re: Nouveau venu dans le Roguelikeverse

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